So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
//On what day did God create Adam? Anybody know? Anybody?
And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Problem is, there is no mention whatsoever in this creation story of Adam and Eve. Just the creation of mankind in God’s image, which occurs on the sixth day. The story of the six days of creation ends in Genesis 2:3, and a second creation story begins in verse 2:4. In the second story, God forms Adam “in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.” He prepares Adam before any of the plant life, in order to tend the earth he is about to create: “And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.”
So, may we assume that Adam was formed on the third day, when God plants grass, and herbs, and fruit trees? But where is Eve?
Back to the second story. Eve comes after the fruit trees, after the animals. Eve makes her appearance from the rib of Adam, but only after Adam rejects all the rest of God’s creation as his “helpmeet.” Eve eats the forbidden fruit, gives it to Adam, their eyes are opened to see their nakedness, and God casts them out of the Garden of Eden. To Eve, God promises, “I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children.”
Which brings us back to the first story, and the creation of mankind. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. We’re still trying to make sense of two legends, still trying to splice them together in a chronological pattern. So who is God speaking to when he says “Let us make man?” It can only be Adam, just after Adam has rejected all the animals as his mate.
“OK, Adam, you win, we’ll make mankind in our own image.”
So, God forms Eve, Eve seduces Adam, they get kicked out of the Garden and have all the world to play in with their new-found nakedness and knowledge. Along come children. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply.
Whaddaya think?
Ummm, no "US" is speaking of the Trinity and God made man in His image "Imago Dei". We bear the divine image of God as his created beings (see Genesis 1:26)
ReplyDelete:) Of course I'm aware of the Christian slant on that verse.
ReplyDeleteI'm also aware that, at the time it was written, there was no concept whatsoever of a Trinity. Not in the wildest imaginations of its author.
So who did the author really imagine to be the other part(s) of the "us"? To be honest, most likely it was written in the age when Israel was still polytheistic.
Interesting how authoritative you can sound about an author or by your reasoning, "authors" that you never met. You truly know the wildest imaginations of the author/authors? I only agree with you because I do believe that the trinity idea came with the creation of the Catholic church. For some people that is blasphemous.
ReplyDeleteRichard is correct that it is "us". Although how Richard put it is interesting. Just what do you mean by Trinity and God? Isn't the Trinity supposed to be God (Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit)? Are you thinking of a quadrinity?
This Trinity thing is confusing. For me the reality is not confusing. Christ was one with His Father. Christ also said that we could be one with Him and His Father. We get to be part of the family.
lol. I think the two of you are taking this too seriously. My post was a tongue-in-cheek attempt to splice together two legends. Two separate contradictory stories, written in two different styles, at two different times. Of course it won't be seamless.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the "us", I'm most curious about what the AUTHOR meant. Nowhere in the O.T. do we see God talking to Christ. God talks to Satan, to other gods, but never to a being that wouldn't be imagined for another thousand years. (Yes, I know, after Israel fell, they began to dream of a rescuer...but do not make the mistake of thinking O.T. writers hoping for a Messiah were expecting that Messiah to be a god-figure).
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ReplyDeleteThanks for the great response. I understand we are not responding in the same vein as you were in the writing of the post. For many of us these topics are serious and our discussion reflects that.
ReplyDeleteThe Dubious Disciple said, "to splice together two legends". For many of us they are not legends. Most of us that do not see them as legends do not see your contradictions. There is a disagreement in a number of areas. I am quite certain that it is not because of anyones lacking of logic or the use thereof. The disagreement is because of belief and the resultant difference in how things are looked at.
It is good to see you are wondering what the "AUTHOR" in the O.T. means in what is said and not said. I also wonder. The Dubious Disciple says, "...but do not make the mistake of thinking O.T. writers hoping for a Messiah were expecting that Messiah to be a god-figure". I do not know what the writers were hoping for. I do know that for me I see the "AUTHOR" made sure that recorded in the O.T. were many prophesies that Jesus later fulfilled. The "AUTHOR" even had a writer record Moses failure to provide the correct example of Christ in bringing forth water out of the rock. Numbers 20:8-12
There are a number of other references to explain in more depth, but at this time I will just say, Jesus is the rock and the rock freely gives forth his water. It is interesting to me to see that the correct type is a free giving of the water. It is not because of struggle it is just because of asking for the water.
Maybe the more we struggle the farther away from the water we get. When we stop struggling and just ask then we can receive. Just my thoughts, enjoy or not your choice. :)
Tim, I sometimes have trouble understanding your definitions. What would you ever agree is a "contradiction?" In one story, Adam is formed after the plants and animals; in the next, he is formed before the plants and animals. I realize this is a minor contradiction, but is it not a contradiction? If these stories are meant to be read as history, then at least one is historically inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible abounds in contradictions. When did Jesus die? Who killed Goliath? How did Judas die? These are the sort of issues I write about because I find them interesting. I hope they make you think about what the authors wanted to say. I'd be happy to use a word other than "contradiction" if you find a different word less offensive.
Hi, I am from Australia. I came across your blog via your Amazon review of the book Existential Jesus
ReplyDeletePlease find a completely different Spiritual Understanding of the Adam & Eve archetypal myth via this reference.
http://www.beezone.com/adidajesus/adamnervoussystemeveflesh.html
The purpose of "creation" stories
http://www.dabase.org/creamyth.htm
The Garden of Eden - or the Garden of Indestructible Light
http://www.dabase.org/tfrbkgil.htm
On the origins and the political purposes of the Bible
http://www.beezone.com/up/forgottenesotericismjesus.html
Reality Teachings via:
http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/gnosticon/table_of_contents.html
Hi, Australia, and welcome! Thanks for the links!
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree, at least in part, on the purpose of myth-making, I'm not sure you'll win many followers among today's "enlightened" populace. It's so hard for people to imagine truth on any level other than literal. Here's hoping I'm wrong!
"It's so hard for people to imagine truth on any level other than literal." Maybe I am just pretty dense, but absolute "truth" has to at some point have a literal conclusion - not some mushy conglomeration. A rose by any other name is still a rose....;-)
ReplyDeleteRichard, is Beethoven's Fifth "true?" How about the Mona Lisa? Forest Gump?
ReplyDeleteSimple literal "truth" neglects beauty, meaning, purpose, emotions. Sometimes I think we died during the Enlightenment.
Mmm...
ReplyDeleteAs I don't think Adam was human, although very much a look-a-like human, not of men, but a man, I suggest his nakedness was knowing he was a spiritual being, and not a human being.
So I go for a parallel universe, so a parallel Earth, which was once Paradise and is now Hades.
Thus the Flood happened downstairs, which turned Paradise into a vast grave yard, hence Hades.
I believe Adam was created on the third day and eve and the rest of mankind on the sixth day. Some ask, " how is it that we all came from Adam?". Simple, because of the flood. Noah was from the Adam lineage and therefore, we exist from Adam. All the others were wiped out in the flood.
ReplyDeleteA reasonable deduction! So, God made lotsa people on the sixth day, including Eve, right?
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ReplyDeleteI write this as someone who looks into the glass dimly and does not know all things.If we can consider that the plan of salvation can be seen in all the bible and maybe also in the interpretation of Genesis creation.We have in the bible the tabernacle then the temple then the body of the believer as the temple of the holy spirit.In salvation we have christ as saviour and all his attributes freely given us.Because He died we died in Him because He rose we rose with him because he is righteous we are also.as believers we are classed as the body of christ,Gods children born from above born again of him.Yet we were not born from a relationship between Jesus and a female we did not literally come from the loins of Jesus we are of his body through belief.So let us look at creation to some degee as depicting this.First we have Adam as the first man living and Christ as the second man a life giving spirit 1cor 15;45.Could it be that the many believers are new creations without coming from the loins of Jesus he being the first born over all creation and we born again into his likeness.So with Adam formed in Gods image many other men were formed in Adams image him being the prototype or like Christ firstborn over all creation of the rest mankind,of which God said to Adam let us make man in our image on the sixth day.Adam though it seems was formed in the midst of the third day before any plant was on the earth.Now as Christ has received more glory than us so Adam was more glorious than general mankind.And as Christ has risen to the heavenlies and at this time because we are on earth seperate from him so Adam was also in the garden seperate from the rest of mankind.In this Eden was the two types of trees and God walked and his presence was in the garden.So Eden was atype of the most holy place where Gods presence was in the temple.As to in the new covenant where Christ sits at the right hand of God yet by his spirit abides in the believer.At the time of Adam the rest of mankind like the church is seperate from Adam and the garden as the church is from seeing Jesus face to face.They dwelt in the land outside Eden.Also Christ the last Adam is our high priest so Adam was also high priest over mankind then.As Christ is righteous and naturally continues to be, so the believer is righteous in him.Now Adam before he sinned mankind like Adam did not sin,but when Adam sinned sin entered the world and thus all mankind began to sin.This is why Cain killed his brother and feared after his eviction that he could be killed also.There are many more things I could add and have left out because of size.So in summery we can see a type of the temple,the two types of Adam,one leading mankind to fall to sin and death,the other to life ever lasting.I have read this and I have really condensed it maybe to much.I hope you can understand for I have left out a lot.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment, googa, your interpretation seems quite healthy!
ReplyDeleteI am quite on par with googa. Adam (Adam and Eve God called them both Adam in the day they were made isn't till the fall that we get Eve) were created on the third day before everything else as described by chapter two and everything was made for them. That is why we see the whole God creating things after their kind thing except when it comes to the rest of mankind who are also made in his image and given dominion. Adam and his lineage through Seth all the way to Noah were THE Sons of God. They were the prophets of their time. Remember Adam's (the man) prophecy when he gave Eve her nickname that she was the mother of "all living" he was predicting the flood because the sixth day men were not children of Eve but after the flood only Noah and his descendants are left. Even though Adam fell God still counted him as righteous because Noah was said to be PERFECT in his generations. God is a helluva merciful you know.
ReplyDeleteWhat really sucks is the whole Garden thing was a test, a choice. In the whole garden out of all the trees given to Adam only two mattered the Tree of Life and the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil. If they had followed the command of God they would have lived forever after consuming the tree of Life and God would have removed the temptation of the other tree. This wasn't some "oh eventually they would get bored and eat the bad tree and screw us all" they had a CHOICE and the screwed us all. But hey Adam (Adam and Eve) were the BEST and they failed so I don't think we could've done any better.
Ah well. Thank the Lord for being merciful.
-Nescio A. Smith
You're a kick, Nescio! Keep contributing, please!
ReplyDeleteTrying this from a phone ...
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is not contradiction here, but holding to preexisting assumptions. Read the narrative carefully. In Genesis 1 until 2 verse 3 we hear the overview. Then it goes back and says "look, here is a specific thing that happened AFTER the earth was formed, but BEFORE there were plants. " it then goes on to describe how the Lord God made Adam, which is different from how the multiple people are created on the 6th day. Those people are not identified as Adam and Eve.
After Cain kills Abel and God is yelling at him, Cain expresses fear that other people will kill him when they see the murderer mark. After being reassured, he goes off and finds a wife. There are other people around by now - the people created by God's word in Genesis 1. Nothing else makes any sense.
You should probably apply yourself to some Hebrew study to get the deeper meaning out of the different names used for God here
They have nothing whatsoever to do with the Christian Trinity, of course
Fill us in, Anonymous! I assume you're talking about the way, in the second chapter, "Elohim" receives the name "Yahweh." So, how does this influence the interpretation of the creation story?
ReplyDeleteHi, my name is Greg,
ReplyDeleteI came across this thread because in studying my bible I came to the exact same conclusions on my own, went to look it up and behold many others had come to this reasoning.
It is quite simple:
THIRD DAY: Gen 1:12 -1:13 PLANTS created
SIXTH DAY: Gen 1:26 -1:27 Male AND Female created (this implies a seperate creation myth as male AND female are created AT THE SAME TIME to have dominion over ALL the world, how are TWO people rooted in ONE place, EDEN, going to have control over all the world??? This implies a seperate MULTITUDE of people created at the same time and populated over ALL the world. In Gen chapter 2 EVE is not created at the same time as Adam.)
Gen 2 starts with basically saying this is a 'RECOUNT' of what happened...no one denies or doubts that, but it is what is said in that RECOUNT that supports the idea of two creation events...
DAY TWO or DAY THREE Gen 2:5 - Plants had not been made yet...WHY?...because there was no rain yet - and NO MAN TO TILL THE GROUND.
No matter how you spin it this has to be day 2 or 3 ---because in Gen 1:12,13 there are plants on the third day already.
AND this is something that not a lot of people focus on --one of the stipulations as to why there was not grass yet was because -- THERE WAS NO MAN TO TILL THE GROUND. This would imply that God's purpose was to have man here first to tend to plants and animals. AND THAT ALL HAPPENS BEFORE DAY 3 CLEARLY-- or possibly ON day 3 plants were created right after man.
Now those that will argue that man's creation happened on the SIXTH day will point to GEN 2:1(declaring this is a replay of events that have already happened) and Gen 2:6 'There came a midst from the ground that proceeded to water all of the earth' -- they will say this accounts for days 3,4,5, and 6 ---that 2:6 is the total of ALL those days and that plants and animals and whales and birds were created before Gen 2:7 where God creates Adam. --To me that is a STRETCH at best.
It seems clear that there was two seperate creation events for man. This is my opinion from reading and re-reading.
Also in doing a side study on the HEBREW word for 'man' I have found some interesting facts. From Gen 1:26,27 to Gen 2:5-2:7 there are TWO seperate words used for MAN...the one used in Gen 1:26,27 means 'MEN' or 'MANKIND' and the one from Gen 2:7 means "THE MAN" or as we have come to know it 'Adam, THE MAN' --as ADAM is the root of the hebrew word for man. (It's actually a little more complicated than that, but in simple english speaking terms this is the 'gist' of the two words, I would encourage your own study for clarification)
Now all of this is said in the argument for 3rd day creation...if you want to further expand yourself look up 8th day creation myth...yes that's right some people believe that there are more days that God created things AFTER he rested, and that Adam and Eve were created on the EIGHTH day. This idea is used to explain why there are new species and to explain why you can find bones for extinct things like dinosaurs. People will say 'Oh that's a 9th day creation of God' or 'Those were a 12th day creation of God' Many believe he is STILL creating. Not sure what 'DAY' we are suppossed to be living in.
Anyway I hope I added to the conversation and didn't take away from it.
Bless you!!!
Hi Greg, I had never heard of the 8th-day creation myth! Thanks for contributing...
ReplyDeleteI hadn't heard of it until I read gen 1:12,13 then gen 1:26-1:31 then read Gen 2:5 - 2:7 and said to myself something is wrong here! So I GOOGLED it and came across all this info.
DeleteGoogle 8th day creation....BEHOLD THE POWER OF GOOGLE!